Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | See parent post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 16, 2010 6:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Oh, thanks, well that was a stupid question then!!

and the really stupid thing is, I told myself it would be easy to remember because it's tomorrow's TDIH, so if I forgot, someone would probably talk about it tomorrow. I'll shut up now ...

This post was modified by ringolevio on 2010-09-17 01:41:43

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Left Hand Monkey Date: Sep 16, 2010 6:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Speaking of tomorrow: I'm heading out to see DSO in Baltimore and DC back to back nights. Re-creating Capital Centre shows both nights. Hoping to hear St. Paddy's day 1991. 2nd New Speedway Boogie after 21 years and first ever Reuben and Cherise. Awesome crowd reaction on the auds for that night to the 2 songs. Kind of like it was when Box of Rain came back a few years earlier.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1986-03-20.aud.bandrofcheck.81845.flac16

This post was modified by Left Hand Monkey on 2010-09-17 01:54:38

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 16, 2010 7:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Yeah, sometimes I listen to that just because the joy of the crowd is so overwhelming.
Have fun!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 16, 2010 6:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

as some of my teachers were fond of saying way too often for us to take them seriously, "there are no stupid questions".

ya know why? cuz i'm gonna go listen to this box after i finish my second run through the pre-drums of 9-15-85. this is yet another show that's helping me re-think '85... great aud as well that micah reviewed recently.

well looks like i just disturbed the hallowed ground of 1970 with some junky jerry talk... oh well... listen to the music play

This post was modified by deadpolitics on 2010-09-17 01:48:48

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: banditos33 Date: Sep 17, 2010 5:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

as some of my teachers were fond of saying way too often for us to take them seriously, "there are no stupid questions".
Sorry but I could not disagree with this statement more. When a question is asked and the individual doesn't even bother to look for the answer, due too being relient on others or just lazy then it becomes a stupid question.imho

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 17, 2010 5:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

i remember the justification behind this statement being "because someone else may have the same exact question". i'd rather be annoyed with a stupid question than have a whole bunch of ignorant people who are too lazy to look for the answer themselves running around. hopefully they'll pay attention to the answer.

in relation to this thread, i'm glad it was asked because i enjoyed the listen and don't know if i would have heard otherwise. though maybe if ringo had found the answer on her own we would have had a nice TDIH post instead.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 17, 2010 6:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions

[not meant for you, Ring Lee O, but in general]

Yes, the way to encourage students asking questions is to listen patiently to each and every one, correct them politely, with humor if possible if it contained mis-information, etc., etc.

I have had plenty of students ask very stupid questions: IE, completely OFF TOPIC, about only themselves (ie, "well I had this thing in my refrig...what do you think it is?") with absolutely no contribution to class nor to general knowledge, nor to the subject at hand...these students have often told me privately "I ask those questions to make it seem like I am participating".

So, I hate to say, Band's right: the whole edu speak biz about "no bad questions" has completely back fired. It encourages students to ask stupid questions without really thinking, much less the lazy ones...

This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-09-17 13:12:46

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions


I am just an idiot, I'm not really lazy. I do know how to search the archive, it just didn't occur to me that there was only one Box of Rain in all of 1970. I thought I'd get a list of them to work through, and surely someone here would know which one I meant right away, 'cus this one didn't sound like any other BoR except the studio one.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 17, 2010 7:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions

Hey, I didn't say it wasn't okay for us lazy and stupid Forumites to ask dumb questions when we know someone will derive some small satisfaction in providing what we want to know without us having to work too hard...lets be honest, have you ever known me to work hard on a post? I always assume someone else will do the "real work"...I just meant the silly "no dumb questions" biz is really off the mark, and the intention behind it, misses the pt, which banditos was hinting at...if you don't know something in a class setting (the original intention behind the comment), and it is "on topic", by all means ask...but, if this is a classroom, can I be the retired principal? Or merely, an outdated principle of sorts?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 7:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions

Oh, I quite agree there is such a thing as a stupid question. The "no such thing" is kindly teachers' attempt to put shy or underconfident students at ease; unfortunately it does encourage, well, stupid questions, and many students have no hesitation or self-consciousness about asking anything that pops into their head in the first place. Meanwhile those who are afraid of asking stupid questions probably aren't encouraged by this, 'cus we KNOW our question is stupid even if other peoples' aren't.

So I wonder if it is really a sound pedagogical principle ... a question for you Mr. Retired Principal. (You're like an emeritus prof who still keeps an office.)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 17, 2010 7:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions

WT, you remind me of one retired professor from my faculty that come around to give guest lectures, seminars about the history of the Bioresource Engineering department, lead his favorite laboratories, and read random poems about Canadian history. He would often make insightful, humorous, or obscure comments that would make all the kids look at each in confusion.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: banditos33 Date: Sep 17, 2010 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions

In no way was that meant to be a knock on Ring-o. It was aimed more for the philosophy behind there are no stoopid questions mentality. It seems to breed mediocrity by the notion that asking is the first option to gaining information. Once again I apologise for the any misunderstanding.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 9:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions

Oh, I wasn't insulted, don't worry. I agree with you, "no stupid questions" is part of the whole "every child wins a blue ribbon" mentality which doesn't really help anybody.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Sep 17, 2010 9:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions

Ringolevio, you should check out www.setlists.net as it is easier to search than Archive. And the results in setlists.net almost always contain a link to the archive for the show if a recording exists at archive.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions

Thanks! Have never tried that.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Sep 17, 2010 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Sorry...there are dumb questions

I find Deadbase helpful too. http://www.deadbase.com/

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Purple Gel Date: Sep 17, 2010 9:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

"When a question is asked and the individual doesn't even bother to look for the answer, due too being relient on others or just lazy then it becomes a stupid question."

Uhh.. doesn't the act of asking the question qualify as looking for the answer? Are you saying that asking people should be the last resort when looking for information?? Aren't friends and other people legitimate sources of information? How do you know if someone hasn't already looked for information in other places, or searched correctly?

What's this world coming to when it's cosidered stupid or boorish to ask for help?

I think it is true that there are no stupid questions. Sometimes the answer is "I don't know.", "Why don't you look it up?" or "Here's how you look it up.".

Asking questions is a healthy sign of an inquisitive mind!

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2010-09-17 16:43:25

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 17, 2010 9:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Gotta disagree heartily with ya PG; as articulated above, many "questions" are really posed as attention drawing, "hey, look what I found" comments rather than true questions. You may think that these should be eliminated, but truly, if you've taught for 40 yrs, you quickly learn, there are stoopid questions.

Often students ask a question that you just answered; they were on their cell texting. Often they ask a question that is really a comment on some idiosyncratic observation of theirs totally off topic. Under many circumstances, there are indeed, if you prefer, inappropriate questions.

But sure, someone innocently asking about something they don't know, weren't told five mins ago, seeking clarification--yeah, these sincere sorts of inquiries by folks that truly want to learn are what keep you from burning out as a teacher...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Purple Gel Date: Sep 17, 2010 9:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

I disagree.

Of course, no rule is without exception, and yes there may be frustrating, inapropriate questions and annoying questioners. Even then, people deserve to be treated seriously and with respect.

I've been in many lectures and classes, and I've run and attended many conferences. Sometimes it's just hard to stay focused for the whole time, people do get distracted in many different ways. Just because something has been covered, does that mean that your SOL if you missed it and you shouldn't be able to ask the question without being belittled? Some folks need things repeated to them, or explained in an alternate way, in order to understand or retain what they've heard. Sometimes even the sharpest people just didn't quite get it on the first run. Sometimes it is the lecturer's fault for not making it clear in the first place. Sometimes the appropriate response is to tell them that a particular question is best asked at a later time. As a parent who is paying tens of thousands of dollars a year to send my kid to school, I expect him to pay attention and treat all others with respect, but I also expect him to be treated with respect when he asks questions, no matter what the reason.

The problem with using the word "stupid" is that it is a disrespectful, harsh, contemptious and judgemental word that stifles the discussion for all involved, not just the intended target. It not only belittles the questioner and discourages further discourse from him or her, but it also can serve to intimidate others in the conversation and make them hesitant to speak up themselves and ask their questions for fear of recieving similar treatment. The word "stupid" has no place in an academic, business or social setting.

Personally, I think that there are too few questions being asked these days and that people should be encouraged to ask more of them. Too many people are just content to believe and swallow anything they are being told. When people are discouraged from asking small, seemingly insignificant or annoying questions, then many will be hesitant to ask the bigger more pertinent ones for fear of rebuke. I don't care what your politics, religion or intelligence level is, please ask more questions!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 17, 2010 11:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Apples and oranges, my friend. You missed my first post where I said "polite...with respect...etc.", right?

And, I think you are going way too far to suggest that recognition of "bad/inappropriate/stupid" questions stifles learning.

On the contrary, it encourages it.

Does giving a medal to every kid on the soccer team encourage better play? Or self esteem?

Dunno.

But as Ring Lee O noted, this is the slippery slope this kind of edu speak pushes toward.

Now, I will repeat: never publicly state "that's a dumb question" to one asking (that's not polite)...but, learn how to ask useful and significant questions, when appropriate, so that in group settings all learning is not hampered by inappropriate off topic outbursts that are really thinly disguised means of drawing attn to yourself.

This has nothing to do with "questioning authority" and the other topics you allude to...sorry if I misunderstood, but really think that's a stretch.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 17, 2010 12:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Sorry again, PG, you soo pissed me off, here's my org text you obviously missed:

"Yes, the way to encourage students asking questions is to listen patiently to each and every one, correct them politely, with humor if possible if it contained mis-information, etc., etc.

I have had plenty of students ask very stupid questions: IE, completely OFF TOPIC, about only themselves (ie, "well I had this thing in my refrig...what do you think it is?") with absolutely no contribution to class nor to general knowledge, nor to the subject at hand...these students have often told me privately "I ask those questions to make it seem like I am participating".

So, I hate to say, Band's right: the whole edu speak biz about "no bad questions" has completely back fired. It encourages students to ask stupid questions without really thinking, much less the lazy ones..."

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

I think it's just misguided. It's meant to create a climate of respect etc., But the kids who are hesitant or underconfident are not encouraged by being told "There's no stupid question" - 'cus often, they're smart kids, and they know there ARE stupid questions because they hear other kids ask them. They don't want to do the same. And as you say, the ones who don't engage their brains before opening their mouths anyway, hardly need more encouragement to say whatever pops into their head.

There are some kids who put their hand up automatically right away when the teacher asks for input, and you can tell when they are called on and have to start speaking, they had no idea what they were going to say before they said it.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 1:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

I am heading off for the weekend and hoping you aren't ticked at me. Will be off a couple of days.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 17, 2010 3:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Of course not--as usual, I over-reacted as it "touched a nerve" on something I've spent forty yrs researching, writing about, blah, blah, blah...lots of well intentioned cliches have this kind of misguided, misdirected impact, and frankly, the continued defence when one recognizes it, baffles me...that's why, without sounding too condescending, I think that PG and I are talking two different issues...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: banditos33 Date: Sep 17, 2010 2:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

I know that really pains you to agree with me, but I can agree to an extent with PG that the word stupid is in really bad taste but it should not be taboo. with that said anymore replys on this topic by me is just plain STUPID. I have some prime Dead to dig into.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 17, 2010 2:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Absolutely; that's why I said, "let's call them 'inappropriate' or some such"...PG and I are really talking about two different things.

But, I do maintain the well intentioned adage "no stupid questions" has backfired for the reasons that Ring Lee O and I outlined above...there are better ways of achieving the ends this means attempts to achieve.

I defn agree that "questioning everything", etc., etc., the good notion PG's really getting at, is well placed. And I only used "stupid" because that was the original term, and I was confronting the cliche not the definitional shortcomings, etc.

But we spoke past each other, or as I crankily suggested, PG didn't read my prior posting about "always be polite"...so, again, never tell someone "that's a stupid" question; but like all the other classmates do (rolling their eyes, comments to the teacher, etc., etc.) like all things "social" you should learn how to ask useful and productive questions in pursuit of knowledge, etc., etc.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: banditos33 Date: Sep 17, 2010 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Oh great, we can add a new word to the ever growing list of PC horseshit for the thinned skinned.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

I will certainly never ask about Box of Rain again :)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 17, 2010 12:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Wrong...that's not what I said...and PG's way outta line with suggesting I ever said "tell someone they asked a stupid question".

Are peeps really skipping most of what I write these days?

Good grief...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 12:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

No, no, I was just reacting to the whole flap, feeling guilty that I started it, inadvertently, by asking, um, a stupid question. I think you're both right really - there is such a thing as a stupid question, OTOH the teacher doesn't have to *call* it a stupid question, it can be dealt with kindly, which I'm sure you always do.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 17, 2010 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

if you started it, then i was responsible for feeding the fire at a crucial stage. i tend to agree with PG on this one.

giving anything the label of "stupid" is an act of judgement. and the judgement says more about the person doing the judging than the target of judgement. even WT conceded that stupid is a vague label and described many scenarios in which questions are annoying. but honestly, that doesn't make them stupid.

stupid is a vague word with diminutive intention. calling something stupid just isn't trying hard enough to come up with a more clear description. you had to clarify that yourself after this discussion began that you were actually lazy because you weren't good at searching the archive.

and look, now you have been linked to a few great sites with much better user interface and now you are endowed with knowledge!



Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 17, 2010 3:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Right; but as I explained below, I used "stupid" since that's the origin (in the cliche), and the fact is no matter what you call them, they are "bad" if anything but "good" (read other ramblings for explanation, but you get the point).

What I really quibble with is that again, the support of the "ask any question, any time" is misguided, misdirected. It's like saying "speak your mind, any time any place", blah, blah, blah.

We should all, I think, be much more introspective and articulate when conversing, learning, interacting...

Notice I so frequently reject this advice, but the prinicple stands, don't ya think?

BTW, I am in fact the opposite of the prof you alluded to, BUT I do appreciate the kind implication (right?). I think that the way to an audience's brain is thru three pathways: first, connect to prior experience (ie, build linkages between your info and something--anything--they already possess); you can't reach them if they can't "connect" what you are saying and form relationships by building on what they already know. Second, organize your info AND your expectations of your audience (losing the AUD is the cardinal sin; note again how often I exhibit this flaw HERE, huh?!); they must know where you are starting from, where you are going, and when you get there, AND they must know what you expect of them in very simply terms (tests, performance, etc., etc.). Third, humor (must be AUD specific, and most useful when selfdeprecating, but it is undervalued by many, and used inappropriately by many more).

Teaching is MUCH more difficult than most imagine. You'll never have a better job, except being a parent, and you'll never burnout nor get bored, nor get over "changing someone's life" when they tell you that you did...I've been doing it forty yrs, and you never stop getting better at it, which is an amazingly motivating factor.

Are you going to go on in academia, Junior? Would love to talk more...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 17, 2010 5:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

"Teaching is MUCH more difficult than most imagine. You'll never have a better job, except being a parent, and you'll never burnout nor get bored, nor get over "changing someone's life" when they tell you that you did..."

Could not agree more. Most rewarding job I ever had, albeit it mostly at the high school level, and my wife now works with two of my former students. I hope to one day make the leap back to academia.

And there are stupid questions and many stupid people. How else does one explain the turnout in DC for Beck and Palin?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: billydlions Date: Sep 17, 2010 6:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

We need more stimulus money (so who's really stupid?).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100917/bs_yblog_upshot/report-los-angeles-spent-70-million-in-stimulus-funds-to-create-7-76-jobs

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: advokat Date: Sep 17, 2010 7:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

So, is your point that this President's administration was responsible for how the City of Los Angeles misspent money?

And, yes, I do believe the stimulus was woefully inadequate.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 18, 2010 7:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

I have a handful of old friends that have always had that as their dream too...to return to teaching at some level when they get done with a life time job of some other sort or another. Good deal.

Of course, teaching as I do at "highest levels" with research focused sorts is a far cry from HS settings, so I have the best of both worlds...I don't have to deal with "age related disciplinary" aspects...they can get in the way of real teaching. But, you also get them when they are a bit more responsive too. I think it's easier to burnout at that level though, overall.

Go for it big guy, go for it...someday soon.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 12:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Well, I kind of feel I made a fool of myself, 'cus how hard can it be to find a particular song in 1970 if it was only played once in 1970? OTOH, my mistake wasn't really that stupid; I didn't have the baseline knowledge that it was only played once. I assumed it was played many times in 1970 and that searching, therefore, would be time consuming. I just figured someone knew the answer, and would springboard from there into discussions of "Box of Rain 1970."

I didn't figure they would springboard instead to educational maladies of our era ... lordy. And now we've offended the prime minister (emeritus).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 17, 2010 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

I assume Box of Rain WAS played many times in 1970. It is a sad state of affairs that no other tapes exist. Perhaps in the vault somewheres? This is a good question for Lemieux!

It's nice to have a more or less friendly diversion from the GD sometimes on here. These kinds of discussions always impress me with the maturity, eloquence, intelligence, and aptitude for debate of posters around here. Love me some food for thought. Yummmmm

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: banditos33 Date: Sep 17, 2010 3:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

sorry this has turned into a BOX OF PAIN

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 17, 2010 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1970 Box of Rain

Also sometimes people just want the interaction. On my knitting web site, the same debate rages. A newbie asks an arguably stupid question that the rest of us know could be answered in 10 seconds if they just used the search box, or looked at one of the gazillion tutorials on the site etc. But sometimes the person knows that and just really wants people to show her anyway, just to feel wanted and encouraged.
Also, we remember things better if someone tells us or shows us. At least I do.